Time to address some things once again. I started melting down again, and seeing as its all been very public I would like to share the things that are causing me to melt down.
- Loosing my daughter.
- Possibly not being part of the adoption process for my daughter. I feel this is important for me to be able to grieve the loss, as well as be part of her future life.
- Fear of loosing Katelyn. I know Katelyn has broke up with me, but I hope to be back with her once we are both better.
- Not being able to be there for Katelyn, as shes pregnant with our child. I feel like I should be there for her, and it hurts so much that I’m not.
- My mental health support workers have repeatedly dropped the ball, mis-communicated, failed to communicate and blatantly lied to me leaving me to not really trust them.
- My family not being supportive
- Being abandoned by people who don’t know how to help
Apologies and Self-Reflection
I think I really need to appologize to a few people. First of is Suzanne Higgs – Kate’s mom. She and I have been tangoing for quite a while and I really need to appologize to her. After some self-reflection tonight I found that when I start to go off the deep end I tend to hurt the people I need the most – which right now believe it or not is Kate’s family.
Kate’s family – especially her mother Suzanne have really been there for me. I made them a lot of promises that I did not keep (like no sex before marriage) that caused a lot of stress between them and I but they are still there for me. Then when I started going downhill I start hurting the people I need the most, which was often Katelyn’s family or Kate.
Kate’s father and I had a decent conversation last night. He shared with me that Katelyn or her parents did not accuse me of raping or beating her daughter – and somehow the police decided to accuse me of it themselves. I really do not know what to believe here – and the amount of misinformation going around about what happened is further leading to my instability. I guess its nice knowing however that Kate’s parents do not believe I raped or beat her.
Getting Better
Right now I need to concentrate on getting better. I need to get better so I can be there for Katleyn when she gives birth to our daughter, I need to get better for our daughter because even though shes going up for adoption I hope to be part of her life. Our girl will always be special to me.
People can help me get better by listening to me, not abandoning me, and giving me a hug on occasion. You don’t know how powerful a hug is when your hurting so much.
It is my hope to get better, for Katelyn to get better and for us to be happy – even if its as friends. I’ll be honest – I hope to start over new with her if possible, I love that woman and I hope to do it right this time, by courting her.
UPDATE: Late last night I sent this to several people who I still talk to that have been helping me, including both of Kate’s parents. I hope it helps them understand how to help. If you would like to offer suggestions feel free to comment.
I’m going to address a couple of things here, and I’m emailing this to some friends (and Kate’s parents as well).
Yes, I’m hurting a lot right now. I would also say I’m suicidal as well. I feel as if I have lost everything. Part of this is because I perceive some people have abandoned me, when its in fact that they just don’t know how to help. Then when I feel they abandoned me I lash out at them causing a them to really abandon me.
So I guess the question a lot of you asking is – how can I help him. Right now I’m sick, and just like any other sickness I need people around me to help me get better. Just because my sickness is mental does not change the fact I need those friends around me as I get better. Abandoning me or leaving me causes me to feel as if I lost everything.
I guess the biggest thing you can do to help me is to listen. Right now I am mostly overwhelmed and confused and need good friends to act as sounding boards and an occasional moral compass.
When I say I’m suicidal just don’t hang up the phone. I’m not joking when I am suicidal, but help me through whatever is bugging me.
Also if you feel like attacking Kate, or saying things like there are “other fish in the sea” will help me they won’t. I made a commitment to Katleyn, and a commitment to God and I plan on sticking by those commitments. If Katelyn chooses to not take me back – then I choose to be with no one else because I feel like I would be cheating on the woman I love. So don’t be trashing Kate thinking it will make me feel better – it just pisses me off.
Also hugs help. Hugs help a lot. I don’t get enough hugs.
Also when I’m really upset, I tend to vent – also known as say things I don’t mean. I know its not healthy and I appologize for it – but right now its the way I cope. I hope to change it in the future.
So I guess just treat my sickness like any other sickness. I know its hard to, but just be there for me. Being there for me does help me get better – just like any other sickness
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{ 52 comments… read them below or add one }
Okay… Zack, I for one am glad you’re still in the land of the living. Many others I know will share this sentiment. And I’m also glad that you managed to get a good talk with Katelyn’s dad. As you say, “I guess its nice knowing however that Kate’s parents do not believe I raped or beat her.” You need to use that statement as a sort of landmark to fix your eye on, when things feel like they’re going out of balance again.
“I found that when I start to go off the deep end I tend to hurt the people I need the most – which right now believe it or not is Kate’s family.”
I can believe that. I’d say that it’s a pretty universal thing, really. In some ways, it’s actually an unconscious statement of “feeling safe” about them, as it were; another landmark, although it’s a good idea to get some help before all that starts coming out. Which leads me to:
# “My mental health support workers have repeatedly dropped the ball, mis-communicated, failed to communicate and blatantly lied to me leaving me to not really trust them.”
# “My family not being supportive.”
# “Being abandoned by people who don’t know how to help.”
I’m going to place some considerable responsibility on the mental health support workers here: they have absolutely failed you, Zack. Not total, but considerable responsibility. They have a responsibility to you as their client, and they are failing in that responsibility.
Apropos responsibility: “Not being able to be there for Katelyn, as shes pregnant with our child. I feel like I should be there for her, and it hurts so much that I’m not.”
We know this is one of the things that frustrates and antagonises you. It places you in that horrible situation between a couple of alternatives and the moral implication of each basically does one no good because these implications are at odds with each other. And it is easy to end up losing sight of things because of the emotional response to that conflict. And then all the other stuff that’s been going on… hardly surprising that you lose sight of things you need to know about people in order to stay emotionally stable. Seems that Katelyn’s mum and dad understand this. That’s a good thing.They may not know what to do to help, but they at least understand that you’re in distress.
“Right now I need to concentrate on getting better.”
I think you’re absolutely right. And so does Katelyn. And being apart for that process is probably hard but essential.
“I’ll be honest – I hope to start over new with her if possible, I love that woman and I hope to do it right this time, by courting her.”
I have to be honest and say that it may be something that won’t happen; but one never knows, right? And if it does look like it could happen, then I’m wishing you the best of luck and the best of patience, and sufficient fortitude of mind to be able to make it work (and that I wish for the pair of you).
Best wishes, man. Again – glad you’re here to give those wishes to.
David
Apropos responsibility, pt 2:
We can all see that you’re wanting to take responsibility and that is something we admire you for. Many guys don’t, so you’re better than a quite a number of men already, in that respect. Keep your eye on that point as well. Okay?
Take care, man.
Misinformation.
That’s a key word here, and that is the big threat. Yes I know I’m probably stating the obvious, Zach, and I suspect that part of the recovery for you lies in sorting all that out. I’m pretty pissed off that so called mental health facility because they of all people should have known better when dealing with an Aspie who relies on correct information. Not to mention the police and the part they played in this as it turned out.
I know you’re not exactly feeling up to legal action, but judging by the above – I’d be considering an action against the mental health crew for negligence. That just might get them off their rear ends and doing something positive to help you. Ask the Higgs about it. Maybe they can get a few people up and moving without the action – it would be a good test to see if they really do care (personally my jury is still out on them, but I’m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt with some more evidence of them doing the right thing by you – no offence).
I have to say I feel a bit powerless here. After all I’m a long way away from you. If I was closer I’d be offering to help in any way I could – within reason of course. And you would be the one in charge – as you need to be for the sake of your own mental health. That’s the other bit threat – having control taken away. That applies to every dot point you made above.
Hope my post has helped you out.
PS – Just off topic; does your domain provider have an IP deny facility in it’s control panel? If so, I’d be using it to send Best packing. I have one on my website and as a result Best can’t see it. So even if you go through another bout of this (of course we all hope you don’t) he won’t barge in and take advantage of the lack of moderation.
I’ve disabled Best’s ability to comment, but he can read as much as he wants. Its good for him to read about disability rights – perhaps he will learn something.
Sorry to inform you but he’ll never learn: he’s made himself resistant to it. But that’s his problem, not ours. Because there can’t me many people in this world who haven’t seen him for the very messed up individual that he always was, still is and will always continue to be. Unless, of course, he decides to chance his ways. And I’ve enough experience of him to know that he never will. Or, at least, the probability of such change occurring is extremely low.
As the saying goes, the stupid will be with us always.
At least now he can’t say anything to you directly that could be calculated to wear you down. And that’s a good thing.
Again, it’s gladdening that you are still among us. Let’s see if it can stay that way, yeh?
I agree with David, Zach. Best will never learn. By disabling his ability to comment I assume that means his email address. If so, watch out that he doesn’t use another one. I know he has more than one. If not, then okay – to be honest I don’t know how else it could be done except by IP deny. Either way – good idea.
I am glad once again to see you well my friend. I agree with many here and yourself, that you need to focus on you and what you need to do to take care of yourself and to get better. And then once you are ready, concern yourself with others.
As I know alot about being unstable unfortunately, those whom you can trust, and it seems at this point that this is the Higgs, are vital and a lifeline to you! Constant communication with them about your condition and how you are feeling, even each day might be a good thing.
I do it with my Granny, whom I trust beyond all others for I know she never judges. Continue to write about how you feel, even if in a journal, like my poetry in my bad old days, it is a wonderful venting tool and as you can keep that sort of thing to yourself if you feel nesscery, no one has to see it but you.
And that is Theo’s two cents.
Kate’s dad has offered to let me talk to him once a day, I hope I can repair my relationship with the rest of the family however.
Well, this once a day is a good start on the repair job. It’ll take time, sure; and more than time it’ll take some effort on the part of all involved. Should be worth it, though.
Oh yes, I almost forgot… *hug*
A really close ex-teacher of mine wrote this. Shes always been kinda a mom to me.
That is a very insightful teacher, with words of wisdom. That is always true. The only way to get better is to WANT to get better, because if that is lacking, then no treatment in the world will help you. Believe me I know. Once again, I have been there!
But I think YOU DO want to get better, and these attempts ae a very LOUD cry for help, and now that folks are listening and want to help, utilize them! The economy has gone to hell everywhere, so your biggest supports right now are going to be those who are closest to you.
So if it looks like you are heading into meltdown, if there is some kind of warning you can send out to them, that would probably help them not only perhaps talk you out of it (prevention if it is just beforemeltdown can work at times, it does with my guy.) It also lets them know that if you reach meltdown, you might say things you don’t mean and it gives them the chance to mentally prepare themselves.
*hug*
Zach,
Glad to hear that things have calmed down.
It might be a good idea to print your latest post out and stick it on the wall – somewhere where you can see it. I think you killed your previous post (or hid it). If you still have it, It’s well worth reading through the comments there to see who supports you and how. There was some crazy feedback in there too but some surprising supporters – and some truths.
It’s also obvious to me that your new family really cares for you. Sadly, the state doesn’t. The suicide thing really doesn’t help. It reduces your likelihood of getting what you want and puts undue stress on everyone. It’s also counter-productive. If you were successful, you’d just open a whole world of hurt for those who care about you.
It would be good if Katelyn’s parents would agree to care for your daughter. This would give you and Katelyn extended visiting rights and eventually custody of your child. I’m not sure how possible it would be.
“It would be good if Katelyn’s parents would agree to care for your daughter. This would give you and Katelyn extended visiting rights and eventually custody of your child. I’m not sure how possible it would be.”
Gavin… genius stroke, man!
Now that would be the perfect solution that would kinda provide an excellent platform for becoming a family proper, whilst still allowing time to heal and grow!
@Zack… what you think?
I also concur that this would be a good solution. It would give you that light back at the end of the tunnel that I have brought up before Zach.
Genious strokes, we can’t live without them!
God bless you Gavin!
“the perfect solution that would kinda provide an excellent platform for becoming a family proper, whilst still allowing time to heal and grow”
Precisely, Theo.
I take a developmental and interactionist approach to things, and this idea of family-fostering is a good way to scaffold the development of wholesome relationships in families (i. e., allowing people to bond with their children whilst there’s a healing process going on). There is always chance to see the child and skills in child care and nurture can be modelled at the same time.
Time was when it wasn’t parents looking after children; it was grandparents anyway. The children were all out hunting.
(Yep – a subsidiary in archaeology is a useful thing to have even for psychologists!
)
Indeed, a very good note from your ex-teacher, Zach.
What you need (as I said above) is information. Correct information. That way you have the maximum chance of making the adjustment needed to get well. Where to get it – that’s something I don’t know (one of the pitfalls of being so far away). If you feel the need for state help – which would be understandable – and you don’t get it, I would be considering moving out of Michigan. If it is practical of course. And should the Higgs believe the state is failing you, they would help you I’m sure. Kate would support the idea as well. It’s just a thought, and I don’t want to place any negative thoughts in your head – that’s the last thing you want right now. Just throwing a few ideas around.
Just off topic – Theo, I don’t know if you got an email confirming it, but your account on my forum has been activated. You can come in and post.
Danke (thank you) Timelord! It’s been rather busy at work lately, so I’ve been a little busy but after dreaded Thanksgiving I will come post.
Zach, I am glad you have her dad to talk to, and I also think he is a good starting point and a good mediator to heal things with the rest of the family.
*hug*
Oh I forgot – Male hug right at you, Zach!
Zach, glad to see you’re still with us. Thoughts and prayers continuing.
Timelord, not sure of the feasibility for Zach to leave Michigan (if he’d even be in favor of that), but I hope the state starts stepping up and providing the help Zach’s needed for a long time now. Don’t eeeeven get me started on the headache I had a couple years ago with one of Michigan’s agencies that’s supposed to be providing services to the disabled, or I could be going on for days.
(I’m not sure how much disability services Zach qualifies for with Asperger’s, in my case I’m also visually impaired so there’s a state agency for help with that, but, well, again, if I get started I’ll go on for days and get wayyyy off topic, so suffice it to say, I can definitely relate to Zach’s trouble getting much needed help, if whatever he may qualify for is struggling as much as what I do is.)
And, though I’m not much of a hugger, quick virtual hug headed you’re way.
Good to hear your on the mend.
You want to work on your rigid thinking. That is hurting you.
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” – Aristotle
Zack,
Dan said: “You want to work on your rigid thinking. That is hurting you.”
Whilst I’ve found some of his commenting a bit harsh and possibly insensitive, I have to say that this is an essential part of what will help you to stay on an even keel. Ask about rational-emotive therapy – your mental health support workers should know at least something about it.
I’d say that it’d be extremely useful to you. Because it is one way to learn to cope with ambiguity in life.
Might I ask how I’ve been insensitive?
I’d show you the bits but they’ve been removed.
Don’t worry about it… in the end, the real aim of what you were trying to do came out … and it was something I quoted here.
Once again I am going to bring up dual diagnoses, remembering a girl I met at a conference who had a dual diagnoses of Aspergers and Bipolar Disorder. You might want to take a gander at that dual diagnoses Zach. You don’t fit all the symptoms, but on the depression side of this disorder, it fits!
It also explains the swinging of moods and stability. This particular dual diagnoses is becoming more prevelant for those of us on the spectrum, so please take a gander. And hopefully this doesn’t hurt your feelings any. I do wish to be of help.
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Bipolar+disorder
*hug*
PS: What do you think David? anybody?
Well, I wouldn’t want to be diagnosing Zack without actually seeing him in front of me and talking with him; I do, however, think that there are obvious mental well-being issues going on (which Zack himself obviously knows). Do I think that a multiple diagnosis is appropriate in Zack’s case? Hell, yes! Why? Because it would give professionals in supporting roles a better overall picture of what is going on in his life circumstances that he needs support to work on and/or which he needs some other environmental accommodations for. Do I think that this is Bipolar Disorder, as defined in ICD 10 or DSM IV-TR? I don’t know, because I haven’t conducted an interview with him. I think that the current set of professionals are responsible for the work they have (or haven’t) done in his case. And if they are missing something in the assessment that would give a better diagnosis of his situation, then they are being very lax in their duty of care towards him.
Regarding the depression side of Bipolar Disorder, we call that a depressive episode. or (sometimes) dysthymia – depending on duration and severity. But, from a functional behavioural analytic point of view, I’d go as far as to say that the behaviour we see is a form of communication in Zack’s case; and it is most likely an attempt to express discomfort and confusion and distress regarding his everyday situation and the needs that come about because of that situation. I’m going to go on to say that – having seen more than two hospitalisations inside a three month period – that someone in the professional side is not identifying Zack’s needs properly (preferring instead to rely on a formulaic/stock ‘remedy’ for the ‘treatment of symptoms’, although what we see in behaviour is actually signs of distress). If the person who is supposed to act as his key worker were to identify his needs accurately, Zack would be able to work with that person to come up with a suitable person-centred plan that would enable and empower Zack in his aim of taking responsibility for his life. The function that his behaviours serve is to get him into a place of comparative stability (compared to his every-day situation); however, the response from the professionals is clearly not even looking at what he needs to transfer whatever he gains from the hospital-given support into his everyday settings.
If Zack wishes, I could post here a reasonable minimum assessment protocol that would be required in order to understand what his needs really are, so that he could give it to the appropriate professionals in his mental well-being support team.
Diagnostic labels like “bipolar disorder” or anything else for that matter may give some idea of what is going on in a general sense but do not contain the specific information that is needed in order to enable someone to move forward from a point of crisis or distress. This is because they focus on structure rather than function.
And only by finding out the functions that Zach’s behaviour serves can professionals even begin to formulate a set of questions that will allow them to know what the needs are in Zack’s everyday life situation, rather than when he’s in a hospital.
I hope that makes sense… I tend to get … technical.
@ the readership:
And, by the way, apologies to Zack for talking here as if he’s not in the room: this is is purely because I am answering Theo’s question as was put to me in the above comment. No disrespect is meant to Zack; I have merely been addressing my points to the person who put the question. Which was a reasonable question to ask.
Thank you for your very though reply! I appreciate it. And my apolgies to Zack.
*hug*
no worries, Theo
From link:
The depressed phase of both types of bipolar disorder involves very serious symptoms of major depression:
Difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions
Eating disturbances
Loss of appetite and weight loss
Overeating and weight gain
Fatigue or listlessness
Feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness and/or guilt
Loss of self-esteem
Persistent sadness
Persistent thoughts of death
Sleep disturbances
Excessive sleepiness
Inability to sleep
Suicidal thoughts
Withdrawal from activities that were once enjoyed
Withdrawal from friends
David,
How was I being insensitive?
Thanks,
Dan
Sorry David,
I missed your comment earlier.
Yea, its probably best that those two postings are off the net.
Yeh. No worries. The real purpose came out clear in the end and hopefully Zack’s seen it and understood it.
We both clearly wish him well.
Yup.
David,
What has happened in the past when people ignored Best?
He keeps pushing for attention. Ordinary operant conditioning methods don’t work with him so we can tell that his issue isn’t one of not having learned to be a reasonable human being: it’s a serious psychopathology. He has a serious obsessive problem, as you’ll see if you read anything on his blog (I’d advise against!) or what he’s had written about him by others.
He’s somewhere between seriously psychotic and seriously psychopathic.
And that’s being charitable. Personally, I’d just rather call him and arrogant, lying, attention-seeking childish wee bastard.
I’m asking you to just ignore Best
Also I would like to point out that what Best is doing can be considered criminal harrasment at this point. He has been repeatedly asked to quit posting here, and is evading bans put in place to stop him from posting.
Further harrasment will result in criminal charges.
We can try.
Maybe just keep backups of his posts, Zack. That’ll give you a good evidence portfolio for the police.
Quite frankly, I hope he carries on now, knowing that charges will be brought and evidence will be presented. Time he was put somewhere safe.
All the best, Zack!
D
You know what I find interesting? While on this blog is my first time actually communicating with Mr. Best, I’ve read about him a bit, and apparently his son is pretty low functioning/high maintenance if I’m not mistaken, needing pretty extensive care and help with daily living is my impression. For that being the case, Best sure has a lot of time on his hands to be trolling around on the internet.
Also, it seems he is familiar with a totally different 1st Amendment than what I’m familiar with. The one I’m familiar with basically puts limits on what the government may do. An internet forum (be it a blog, message board, whatever), that is privately run, is not the government. The First Amendment does not allow one to say whatever they want whenever they want. For example, one may not yell fire in a crowded movie theater (assuming the theater is not on fire).
“For that being the case, Best sure has a lot of time on his hands to be trolling around on the internet.”
Yeh. Shit dad, really. My dad had a hell of a lot more time for me.
“Also, it seems he is familiar with a totally different 1st Amendment than what I’m familiar with.”
He’s like this with everything he talks about. It’s always a different version of reality from the one that everyone else knows.
“An internet forum (be it a blog, message board, whatever), that is privately run, is not the government.”
He’d see it (as he has always demonstrated he does) as a government plot to piss up the general public’s back and tell it that it’s raining. Can anyone spell p-a-r-a-n-o-i-a?!
“The First Amendment does not allow one to say whatever they want whenever they want. For example, one may not yell fire in a crowded movie theater (assuming the theater is not on fire).”
Exactly. Which is precisely what he’s doing just now. When one thinks about it…
David (and Zach), wait until I get the order done to get his blog deleted! Look out for squeals then!
Seriously, Zach, I hope you are keeping a record of Best’s posts. I know you have enough problems at the moment and I can understand that, but it is something that would be very useful down the track. The more evidence you have the better.
I just mark them as spam and don’t delete them, that way they remain in the que.
Congratulations, your banned from further commenting.
Shove your abnoxious behavior up your ass.
Jealous because you’re an untrained and uneducated oik!
Poor John… can’t handle other people’s success… especially not mine or Zack’s!
Best… do the world a favour… and drop off the fucking thing, yeh?
We should feel honoured, really… someone so pathetic has such an obsession with our ability to withstand shit he couldn’t even find a name for the smell of!
He’s pathetic, Zach. Nothing else. Pathetic.
And there’s the difference. He hasn’t had the shit we’ve had to put up with, so he’s just a spoilt wee boy.
We win. We put the effort in. HE loses – because that’s just who he is.
Power to you, man!
You call me a lying scumbag – you’re never on a blog under your real name!
Loser.
Truth, my arse!
You have never told the truth about anything yet.
You daren’t.
You’d have to admit to fraud (attempting to fraudulently obtain money from a major pharmaceuticals company … big time fraud, that one, Best).
You couldn’t expel more shite out ofyour body if you had fucking explosive diarrhoea… even your own side turned against you – and you have to lie to yourself about that to stop it hurting… man, your whole life is a fucking lie!
LoL
That remains your problem.
Best,
You are a failed father of a kid who needs you to be paying attention to him, not sitting on your lazy arse at your computer obsessing about people who have more intellectual abilities in their little fingers than you would have in your whole body and forty clones of you!
You need help and won’t get it; again, you’re a failure for that. Zack knows he can get it, no matter how extreme his communications that he needs it are. The rest of the worlds – apart from a few idiots with far less intelligence than their children need them to have – knows that autism has fuck all to do with mercury poisoning; you haven’t moved forward an inch on that yet. You’re being left behind, Best. And willingly. That is unforgivably stupid.
In short, Best – you are a mentally unwell person who spends his time obsessionally trolling blogs because he has such a hatred for people: quite frankly, Best – that isn’t the behaviour of a real man. But you never were a real man, were you? Real men don’t need to do what you obsessively do. We just get on with life – whatever it throws at us. Yeh – we complain. Who wouldn’t?
But we don’t sit at computers blaming people for autism on the basis of – well, fuck all evidence. We just get on and live with it.
You don’t.
You obsess on it.
Not healthy, Best.
Your attacks against me demonstrate one thing – you wish you had what I have (in terms of skills and education and training) and you know you’ll never get it because you’re the laziest shit on Earth. Too lazy to get away from the computer and have a fucking life!
I have a life outside of the blog here. Zack has one. Theo too, and Lurking Aspie. And Dan.
Only person commenting here who hasn’t got a life, Best, is you.
Dah.
LoL
Off to work. You see, Best – I work whereas you are a lazy twat.
That puts me way higher than you in any natural order of productivity.
You are wrong. You are harassing someone on their personal space on the net. This is considered trespassing. You’d best leave this place alone.
You do not have the right to speak anywhere you chose.
You have much to learn.
Best – you are actively psychotic. This means that very little importance would be placed on your testimony in a court of law.
Don’t like it?
Tough titty!
Get used to being a loser. It’s what you are good at being and that’s because it’s what you are.
“Every time Andrews talks to you, he’s exerting undue influence over you and that is a criminal act.”
He loves me really!
He’s obviously an ego-dystonic homosexual who wishes to get into my pants.
Either that or he has a pathological hatred of me and other who fought against circumstance and did our best… well, tough! JBJr was always too bloody lazy to amount to anything. At least we all did.
And no matter how things turn out, I have absolutely fuck all doubt that Zack will make a better dad than Best has ever done. Zack’s actually a nice guy. He has a sense of humour! (Seen on another thread!)