Gary McKinnon is a hacker from Britain who is set to be extradited the United States. McKinnon Allegedly hacked into the Pentagon’s computer system disabling and/or interrupting several national security systems while looking for info on UFO’s. McKinnon’s defense is that the reason he hacked the United States Military was “as a direct result of following the obsessional interest which drives him.” It upsets me this individual is using Aspergers as an excuse for his illegal actions.
Even though McKinnons lawyers go on to say as he had “no malicious intent to harm the computers or any human beings whatsoever.” I’m sorry, but when you hack the military headquarters of the United States you have done a malicious action – irregardless of your intent. Irregardless of your intent your actions are illegal. Irregardless of your target your actions are illegal.
There are also a lot of people out there that are saying he did this out of his one major interest, a common trait of people with Aspergers. They also say that he should be let loose because of this. My Question is why? Does Aspergers affect his ability to know that hacking into the United States Military is illegal?
Gary McKinnon – you make me very ill to the stomach. Your using Aspergers as a scapegoat for your actions that are very illegal in order to get away with what you did. As someone who has Aspergers your actions are very offensive. Do you realise your stupid last chance legal defense is painting a picture that could very well slow down the rights for Autistic People. Your claiming you don’t know whats right and wrong because of Autism – the exact picture our opponents want to paint.
{ 25 comments… read them below or add one }
Ethical Hacking is the tradition the begat hacking. It used until recently if you hacked someone and then revealed the weaknes it would be greated with a thank you or even a reward. If an ethical hacker can do it then a malicious hacker can do it as well.
He doesnt deserve prison.
I have very mixed thoughts on this article. I believe in a completely just society, which we currently do not have in America, Asperger Syndrome or any other mental “disorder” would never be a valid defense. A true crime would be where the result of your actions caused damage. The intent of your actions would dictate if there would be punishment after justice was served. If you think our system is just, you really need to consider that someone smoking a joint gets more time in prison then a rapist. I could go on with numerous other examples, but I am trying to be brief.
Your regard for the “law” over the facts of his case is quite disturbing. In other totalitarian governments the leaders were always acting within the “law” when they committed acts of torture and death. Mr. McKinnon will most likely spend either the rest of his life or a good majority of it in prison at the expense of everyone who pays taxes to the US government. The damage he has done will also be paid by us as well. Is this fair to you? Don’t you think justice would be better served by forcing him to a payment plan to compensate the people who have to repair all of the systems he has compromised? Don’t you think that is enough to deter him from ever doing the crime again?
Again, I am not supporting what he did or him using Asperger Syndrome as an excuse to commit a crime. I do understand that he is probably desperate to avoid being tried in the United States, so I understand why he would use any legal defense he can think of. I’m just asking you to calm down and take a look at the facts. He will most likely become a burden on our society and could even end up in Guantanamo Bay over a mistake he made. Justice will not be served. The only thing that will be served is some irrational anger that demands he “pay for his crimes” by having us pay for his incarceration for the excessive prison sentence he will receive.
I am truly saddened by what has happened to this once free country. I have Asperger Syndrome and I understand all too well how you can be beaten down by a system that simply doesn’t care about justice.
Tom wrote:
“If you think our system is just, you really need to consider that someone smoking a joint gets more time in prison then a rapist.”
Proof please.
It seems he had no “Mens Rea” or malicious intent, as the lawyers say. He is not a U.S Citizen either. I think what he did was kind of dumb and not prudent, but I don’t think my (United States) government should bring criminal charges against him.
Send him a bill for any actual damages? Yep.
Offer him a job in computer security? Yep.
The latter could help pay for the former.
CS Wrote:
Proof please.
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Search Google news for marijuana sentenced and rapist sentenced. Next time, please search for proof on your own. You can’t expect people to always hand you facts, you must find them on your own.
Perhaps if Mr. McKinnon was living in Pakistan and was named Mr. Mohammed, then would McKinnon’s apologists feel the same? If so, then I think they found the perfect loopole for rogue groups that want to do a little snooping at the Pentagon, not to mention the suspicion that will now surround anyone with an open diagnosis in the work place.
Tom, no need to google it. You made a general statement, not a specific statement. Drill down to a specific rather than using blanket accusations.
As far as having people hand me facts, its not up to me to prove YOUR point. If you make a point its up to YOU to prove it.
Oh, that’s right, 9/11 changed everything. I forgot that justice and the right to a fair trial have been suspended. I agree he committed a crime, I just don’t agree with the excessive punishment he will receive. Not to mention that this will also violate the 8th amendment (as if anyone really cares). Does this make me an apologist?
The average sentence for convicted rapists in the US is 10 years: here is the proof
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/isl.htm
Now, the average sentence for misdemeanor use of marijuana for personal use is a little harder to assess because some states only have probation while others there is no crime (medical use). Many states have bills pending to legalize marijuana use. In some tougher states, conviction for a single joint would result in probation while in other states the conviction may result in a 6 month suspended sentence.
No state that I’m aware of has a bill pending to legalize rape, which I think says something about how the two crimes are generally viewed.
If you can show any statistic that shows average conviction times for a single joint personal possession is more than 10 years, I’ll concede your assertion.
I note Tom that you didn’t address anything I wrote. Has nothing to do with the 8th amendment as your fond of referencing. Google it.
CS- Just because I haven’t responded, it doesn’t prove you correct. I really don’t go back and check for replies on all of the blogs I add comments to. I’m tired of addressing all of your logical fallacies. Lets just agree to disagree and let the readers be the judge.
The 8th amendment prohibits the government from using cruel and unusual punishment. How is an excessive sentence not cruel? Does human life mean nothing to you?
I never said the government is trying to legalize rape. I just inferred that the sentencing patterns seems to indicate that its not as much a priority as other things.
The statistics you provided are federal. Most of this goes on at the state level. The convictions also usually include some sort of other charge like firearms possession, which violates the 2nd amendment.
I don’t think you want any proof of anything. You seem to want statistics to support conclusions you’ve already made. You should consider a career in politics.
If you’d care to address my points one by one and show me to be wrong, that fine. Don’t just pick one of my weaker statements and claim the entire thing is wrong based on that.
“The convictions also usually include some sort of other charge like firearms possession, which violates the 2nd amendment.”
Tom, I’m a bit confused about that statement. Are you saying that added penalties to a sentence as a result of the use of a firearm in the commission of a crime is a violation of the 2nd amendment? Surely that’s not what you meant.
Statistics by the department of justice are gathered from states, so they are not irrelevant.
I also know that you didn’t state that the government is trying to legalize rape. I pointed to how seriously the two crimes are contrasted in public’s view. Some don’t think possession of personal use marijuana is a crime and want to legalize it. No one considers rape anything but a crime. What I’m trying to say, perhaps clumsily, is that your statement that possessing a joint generally is considered as serious of a crime as rape is wrong.
Where is the logical fallacy in anything I wrote. You haven’t addressed anything I wrote so I’m not sure what your tired of addressing.
You made a general statement about the US Justice system, I asked you to back it up with something, anything that would support such a generalization.
Does human life mean nothing to me? You’ll have to judge by my work about the JRC, about Lovaas, about abuse in institutions and school settings, about the lack of inclusion and opportunity and come to your own conclusion.
Someone mentioned above that the citizens of the United States will have to pay for his incarceration. That is the reason why I believe that a person being sentenced to jail should also be fined. This would serve the dual purpose of being an extra deterrent to future crimes and also to pay for his/her own jail time so that the American public doesn’t have to. This should apply to the Aspie hacker to a greater measure so that the United States government can repair the damage that the hacker caused. And I also agree with Zach that it is sickening that he is using Asperger’s as an excuse for a crime. That is just giving curebies more reason to want us cured.
I am sorry but the person that wrote this thread makes me sick to the stomoch.
I take care of my Uncle whom has Azbergers, and the person that wrote this has know idea on how they can be or what they are talking about.
My Uncle is like a child really, his concept on right or wrong can be very tainted by the illness. Simple things to us is a huuuuuuge thing to them.
Silly things that would normally drive me mad, like when i have him at my house he will just go and help himself to my food, he does not ask he just takes. In his mind he is hungry and he needs food. He is a 48 year old man that sits in his flat when i am not with him, playing on computer games (which are his life), all he ever does is talk about them all the time, even to other members of the family that have zero idea what he is talking about. they say “eds we don’t have a clue what your talking about lol” and he just chuckles and carries on with what he was saying.
They get obsessed with things, and when they do they will move heven and earth to keep that.
This lad is no different, his obsestion with UFO’s and his illness drove him to do what he did. To him he was not doing anything wrong, he wanted to know the information and he moved heven and earth to get it.
The stupid Americans want to make there database more secure and also want to be thankful that it was this harmless person that did this.
So before you go shouting your mouth off my friend, spend one day with someone with this sad illness. Your view will be changed.
Tom,
This guy was offered 6 mos in a minimum security prison and 6 months probation in 2003, and he changed his mind and started the extradition b.s. several years back. The Aspergers diagnosis was done within the past year.
The person who wrote this thread has know idea what they are talking about. Firstly us aspies are usually rejected from society and can be considered wierd, so we usually end up being bullied and kicked around. There for a person with aspergers has every right to use asperger as a defence for any crime (doesn’t mean they will get away with it) that might put them in jail, since a aspie won’t be able to handle jail as well as your averge criminal will and there for are getting a harsher senstence, in a fair court this must be taken into consideration.
As for this case, it’s complete crap!
He didn’t hurt anyone and seriously doubt the damage he caused was as much as the US claim. BTW, are you saying that a 48 year old man who did nothing but sit around on his computer trying to find proof of UFO’s is normal? If he did something to hurt or steal of some one, then I agree being in your obsessive realm is no excuse. But when you know that no ones getting hurt and your not stealing of anyone, together with a overwelming desire to know what NASA knows about aliens, well then right and wrong would start to have a very thin line, I can understand that. He doesn’t deserve 60 years, he doesn’t even deserve one!
My son is almost 40, is highly intelligent, extremely articulate, and very accomplished technically in his own field, yet his social ‘age’ is more like 11, and yes, he has Asperger’s syndrome.
Zach, just because you have the mental capacity to understand something does not mean others have as well.
I am horrified that someone with Asperger’s is to be extradited for such a childish and childlike act. I wish him well.
Well I hope you don’t get a disease sometime in your life which requires some sort of human understanding. The small mindedness of some people is beyond me at times. This man is NOT trying to be let off from his crime, he just wants a fair trial. EVERYBODY knows he won’t get this in America as the “we can’t have a trial because its a matter of National Security” will come up. So if that’s the case, what exactly do the American Authorities intend doing? Throwing him in Jail before proving he did this? Throw him into an institution and state he is of no fit state to stand trial? The thing that worries me more though is this: If a person with mental health issues, who taught himself how to use an ordinary PC can hack into the Pentagon do you not think the problem isn’t with the person involved but the fact he was able to manipulate himself into the mainframe of the most deadly computer in the world? How was he able to do this? Where is all the security you would hope is protecting this weapon of mass destruction to stop any Tom, Dick or Harry who has been upset by his wife/friend etc from just hacking in and finishing everyone off? THAT is the issue that is worrying me more. I suggest the American Government should spend the millions it is costing to attempt to extradite this man on updating and securing the system instead.
Actually I have Aspergers Syndrome. Thanks for asking.
Well in fact if you do have Aspergers Syndrome then in fact you do know that others are not as fortunate as you. Some do not have the same resources you have had. Not everyone is like another in the spectrum and you should at least respected that.
I also think the US government should give him a job. If he is that good, looking for aliens and so on to crack this national security info then they should hire him to fix the security problem.
I do not believe he should be tried any form of autism could be lack of self control.
No harm No fowl
McKinnon only hacked computers where the administrator hadn’t gotton around to changing the id from “admin” and the password from “password”. If these machines truly contained valuable info that threatens millions of americans if in the wrong hands it’s not McKinnon who deserves prosecution The protests about extradition are also much about the very one sided treaty Blair signed up to. The US doesn’t have to provide evidence, just claim someone is a terrorist – not so for the UK, we would need to provide evidence. The treaty even uses American spellings, so it is obvious who drew it up.
@kermit:
So if i leave the keys in my car while its unlocked and running, are you allowed to drive off with my car?
I am hugely dismayed at my fellow Brits’ paranoia and double standards. This man was diagnosed with aspergers AFTER he committed the act – highly convenient. He claimed to be looking for UFOs but deliberately left anti-war messages, threatened to hack and disrupt again and also maliciously deleted files. If this was an American so many Brits would be up in arms and demanding his trial here in Britain. Zach is absolutely right – a thief that enters your property and smashed it up cannot use the excuse that it was unlocked and then blame the victim. Stop whining and send this man off to what will undoubtedly (thanks to the ridiculous amount of coverage it has received) be the fairest trial in history.
After reading this article. Im sorry to say but im against EVERYTHING you have mentioned. I myself has asperger syndrome, at age of 21 i was very fortunate to have been diagnosed at age of 5 and got help and support, if i hadnt been diagnosed at an early age my condition would no doubt be more advanced than it is today. I can understand what your trying to say, the fact that you don’t want people with asperger’s getting away with everything, of course not, but you have to remember Gary McKinnon is a man age of 43, and he was only diagnosed a year ago, people diagnosed at that age is kind of a blow as asperger’s can take years for a person control, everyone is different. I agree that mckinnon should serve his sentence but at the same time get support for his condition and give him help, however i am defiently against the idea of him being sent to the USA, the americans could not be more bitter than they are about the situation and thats despite doctors and psychiatrists explaning the condition and the consequences of mckinnon if he was to be sent. Its disgusting treatment if you ask me. People who are diagnosed with the condition must be given support all they can to help lead themselves to a life with very little pressure compared to what it used to be. I take it that you were diagnosed with the condition at a young age? well count yourself fortunate like i was because i think mckinnon wouldnt have done what he did if he was diagnosed at a young enough age. If you seriously think gary being sent to america will make things better…well im sorry it wont
“I am hugely dismayed at my fellow Brits’ paranoia and double standards. This man was diagnosed with aspergers AFTER he committed the act – highly convenient. He claimed to be looking for UFOs but deliberately left anti-war messages, threatened to hack and disrupt again and also maliciously deleted files…”
Sounds to me like he *doesn’t have Asperger’s.*
When someone does bad stuff [like hacking into and deleting someone else's files, sexually harassing coworkers, stealing a bus, leaving clues all over a murder scene, throwing someone through a window, etc.] and his or her sympathizers go “he or she can’t help it, he or she has Asperger’s, he or she needs to stay as free as he or she was free to do this stuff before!!!” it’s really horrible for people who *do* have Asperger’s because it scares other people away from people with Asperger’s (like “since she has Asperger’s she can get away with hitting me, so she’s more likely to hit me than someone else who would be punished for hitting me, so if I don’t want her to hit me it’s my job to stay away from her…”). I bet it even scares some people with Asperger’s away from other people with Asperger’s!