Comments on: About.com Seeks Oppinions On Neurodiversity

By: Alexa

Alexa — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 05:46:25 +0000

“There is nothing about autism, ADHD, etc. that would specifically cause a person to molest a child. Just because some people in any given group do bad things, does not mean belonging to that group inherently means you’ll do bad things – if a white male molests a child, does that mean all white males have a terrible condition to be cured? No, that’s ridiculous – pedophilia is a SEPARATE CONDITION from being a WHITE MALE.””

Exactlamundo! And does not mean belonging in that group inherently means it’s OK to do bad things either!

People with ASD are no more likely to harass, molest, attack others than people without ASD are likely to harass, molest, attack others.

Some creeps are more likely to *make excuses for* people with ASD who do harass, molest, attack others than make excuses for people without ASD who do harass, molest, attack others. If *those creeps* get their way and ASD becomes a get-out-of-jail-free label for the few attacker-wannabes who have ASD, then those few will be more likely to attack (knowing they’ll be excused for it) and their victims will be blamed for the attacks (like “you asked for it, if you don’t like it you’re a neurotypical sheep imposing your mainstream values on us, if you didn’t want to be attacked you should have stayed out of our way, we can’t help it and it’s genocide against us to ask us to conform to your icky illogical “feelings”…”).

By: Sadderbutwisergirl

Sadderbutwisergirl — Thu, 21 May 2009 19:43:06 +0000

Ok, Zach. I’ll cut it out and stick to the topic, but that’s just because I respect you that much. And lurker, even though I don’t agree with you, I’ll leave the word “troll” out of my words for you.
I just looked over that comment that you reproduced, Zach, and I kind of found it disturbing that it implied that violence and sexual harassment are intrinsic to autism. That’s an ugly strawman that should be eliminated. As Fleecy pointed out earlier, there is evidence that autistics aren’t any more or less likely to commit acts of violence than those in the neuromajority. The only reason that it appears to be otherwise is that if an autistic person commits an act of violence or sexual harassment, the primary focus isn’t on the damage done, as it is supposed to be. Instead, the focus is on the fact that the perpetrator was autistic and it obviously shows that there is the idea that the whole group that the person belongs to is more likely to commit acts of violence or sexual harassment. In my opinion, it is disturbingly similar to some news articles from my grandfather’s old magazines and newspapers about crimes that happened in the 1950′s where the authors would report, along with the crime, the fact that the perpetrator was a “Negro,” “Catholic,” “immigrant,” or otherwise deviant from the “normal person” of America at the time, who was Protestant and white. Some later editions tell of women using PMS as an excuse for committing crimes and how people sensationalized it. When my grandfather saw me reading an article about a woman who used PMS as an excuse for assaulting a man, he told me of some friends of his who, after reading some of those articles, sincerely believed that women were more likely to commit acts of violence in general because of their PMS. Likewise, we are being stereotyped as being violent, perverted, destructive animals who don’t even deserve human rights simply because we deviate from the “normal,” non-autistic brain and because some members of our group have committed crimes of a sexual or violent nature. These behaviors should not be excused in anyone because they simply cause too much harm and damage to be excused.

By: AspieWeb Admin

AspieWeb Admin — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:54:10 +0000

Ok, now that you both have said what you think of each other lets try and keep it on topic.

Thanks

By: lurker

lurker — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:24:05 +0000

Sadder, there is no “neuromajority”. I don’t like the “autism rights” of the higher functioning ones to control the lower functioning ones. I wish you would focus on real rights for autistics. There’s not enough talk of the specific issues I contend about on Autism Speaks and I don’t have buddies at a bar to talk with.

Oh wow, I’m such a troll for daring to point out horrific views. Ohh, controversy, how annoying and divergent from the dogma. How dare I. Listen to yourself. Condemning things for being controversial and inflammatory when they contend against what you think. Think about your own dictatorial, consensus obsessed tendencies. You can’t beat anyone in debate with your backward ideas, so you label anyone who dare speak contrary to you a troll.

By: AspieWeb Admin

AspieWeb Admin — Thu, 21 May 2009 15:53:12 +0000

Sadderbutwisergirl:

While I have always appreciated your input on this website, it is not your place to warn people on this website – it is mine. Furthermore I welcome respectful input from all sides of the issue – calling someone a troll because they make a statement that you disagree with is disrespectful.

By: Sadderbutwisergirl

Sadderbutwisergirl — Wed, 20 May 2009 20:33:00 +0000

lurker, there is a term for people who do what you just did and it’s an ugly one. So please, for your sake, drop it. This site is about autism rights. If you want to promote your neurmajority (non-autistics) supremacist views and do nothing but insult our views, do it elsewhere else such as on Autism Speak’s social group on Ning or in a bar with your buddies. But do not do it here. According to the Wikipedia article on Internet trolls, “in Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community.” In the context of you posting neuromajority supremacist views on a comments section of a site concerning the subject of autism rights, the content of your comment fits into all four categories of controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, and off-topic.
I will close with a warning to future comments-posters to not feed the trolls. If anyone does what lurker did, ignore them completely. I have already put out a warning to lurker and all other future people who plan to troll here to not do it here. Anything further will just be feeding the trolls. Peace out, all.

By: lurker

lurker — Wed, 20 May 2009 15:23:05 +0000

“We are also pitted against each other in the groups of “high-functioning” and “low-functioning.”” Sadderbutwisergirl, the differences between functioning groups are too important and significant compared any commonality among autistics.

“Whatever your placement, you’re expected to side against the other “group” just as the women are categorized and pitted against each other in The Handmaid’s Tale” Please, don’t try to make comparisons to other issues, it won’t turn out to be accurate.

“into a “higher” group based on nothing but how close you are to “normal people,”” Untrue. Higher functioning is about higher level of functioning/intelligence. There are even individuals with low intelligence/functioning who would basically be considered normal if they were brighter, and therefore would be considered somewhat normal to me.

“And don’t even say that I’m so high-functioning for my talents because I’m not your goddamn Wife, dammit!” I’m sick of your grandstanding.

“rumors that everyone who supports “neurodiversity” is opposed to any form of treatment for autism, adhd, etc. for example occupational or speech therapy, or medication where it is proven effective and called for.” Fleecy, since when is occupational or speech therapy going to do enough? What the hell is speech therapy going to do for those without language capability? Of course you aren’t against medication. You wouldn’t dare say anything against pharmaceutical companies.

“Every single person regardless of their brain structure must adapt in certain ways to live in society. The idea of “neurodiversity” supports only that sometimes society must adapt too, such as accommodations for disabilities.” Mental disabilities aren’t a neutral brain variation. They are a misfortune and aren’t wanted to be had by anyone. Weak brain characteristics aren’t redeeming variations of nature. Accommodations won’t work.

By: Fleecy

Fleecy — Wed, 20 May 2009 00:49:45 +0000

I posted this

“I think first of all the word “neurodiversity” is getting some very bad connotations, from rumors that everyone who supports “neurodiversity” is opposed to any form of treatment for autism, adhd, etc. for example occupational or speech therapy, or medication where it is proven effective and called for.

I support ‘neurodiversity’ as the concept comparable to “biodiversity”: life in many forms equally valid.

“Neurodiversity” to me does not mean never trying to change a person at all. Every single person regardless of their brain structure must adapt in certain ways to live in society. The idea of “neurodiversity” supports only that sometimes society must adapt too, such as accommodations for disabilities.

Neurodiversity does NOT mean allowing anyone to harm others or molest children! That is not allowable behavior from anyone, that should be obvious.

There is nothing about autism, ADHD, etc. that would specifically cause a person to molest a child. Just because some people in any given group do bad things, does not mean belonging to that group inherently means you’ll do bad things – if a white male molests a child, does that mean all white males have a terrible condition to be cured? No, that’s ridiculous – pedophilia is a SEPARATE CONDITION from being a WHITE MALE.”

By: Sadderbutwisergirl

Sadderbutwisergirl — Tue, 19 May 2009 21:33:43 +0000

abfh, I recognize your name from the Whose Planet is it Anyway? blog, which i really like. If you are the person writing that blog, it’s an honor to be able to respond to one of your comments. I agree with you on your points about the “levels” making it harder for many autistics to get appropriate services. However, I feel that you missed this one important point about how it creates a a hierarchy that does none of the proposed good and does a lot of harm. Also, it splits us up in a way so as to keep us from feeling any solidarity or empathy for people in the other “level(s),” kind of like the women in The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood. The women are subjugated in just about every way possible and to add insult to injury, they are split up into separate groups: Wives, Handmaids, Marthas, and Econowives. Wives are resented by the other groups because of their power. Handmaids are thought to be sluts by the other groups because of a job that is no more than state-sanctioned rape in order to produce children for their Commanders. Econowives are looked down upon by the Wives because the Wives have richer husbands than the Econowives. Marthas are looked down upon by the Wives because the Marthas are nothing more than servants in the household. Whatever category a woman is placed in, she is nothing more than a commodity in Gilead and she is pitted against the other groups of women. In the same way, we are viewed as nothing more than objects of pity, perpetual children, burdens upon society, etc. We are also pitted against each other in the groups of “high-functioning” and “low-functioning.” Only now, many of those classified as “HFAs” are siding with the neuromajority supremacists against their peers who are labeled as “LFAs” because they believe that the “LFAs” are inferior to themselves. Meanwhile, many of the “LFAs” are told to believe that the “HFAs” are just geeks with a reason for being geeks and have no right to the thing that they rightfully deserve. Whatever your placement, you’re expected to side against the other “group” just as the women are categorized and pitted against each other in The Handmaid’s Tale. The only way to stop this is to scrap the functioning labels completely. Those of you who are labeled as “high-functioning,” I don’t care if the functioning part of the label make you feel pride in yourself “for an autistic.” The whole reason it’s supposed to make you feel proud is because you’re put into a “higher” group based on nothing but how close you are to “normal people,” who are not like us in brain chemistry and don’t deserve to be the model that our “functioning” is based on simply because they are supposedly “superior” to us. In fact, they shouldn’t be considered “superior” to us at all simply because we’re the minority and they’re the majority group. Bob Wright, I am not your goddamn Wife to be pampered and told that I am “courageous” until your vision of a Gilead where we are all supposed to be Unbabies comes along. I’m an autistic and I am equal to yourself. And don’t even say that I’m so high-functioning for my talents because I’m not your goddamn Wife, dammit!

By: Joseph

Joseph — Tue, 19 May 2009 17:59:18 +0000

The neurodiversity ideology is completely independent of the validity of the ‘autism’ construct. Whether there’s just one condition called autism, or many, is irrelevant. The only real connection between autism and neurodiversity is that the term was coined by autistics and is a term that autistics like to talk about. Other than that, neurodiversity can apply to basically any neurological difference.